[Judith Norman]

#779

As you have looked at your own, and others’ behaviors through a brain state and stress response lens, what have you noticed? How has using this lens impacted your thinking and/or behaviors?  Post Due 9/12/22

[Janet Lantry]

#1225

I have been understanding and helping others understand behavior and responses through brain state/stress response lens for more than a decade, finding ways to integrate this lens into other modalities, including yoga, DBT, and EMDR. I currently work in a school setting (as an embedded therapist from a military hospital) and often provide snippets of perspective about brain state for teachers and administrators, and I get very mixed responses. Some people are very curious and want to know more, others think I am a “hippie social worker” who just doesn’t understand that the children are disrespectful and their parents are not teaching them to comply. Two years ago, one of the students with whom I worked was having very extreme responses, and there were clear stressors and his responses were rooted in being terrified, and I tried to help the teacher understand some of his responses through the lens of brain state, including using the hand model of the brain (I am known for my lid flipping explanations using my hand), and she started to scream at me. I was able to see her response from a brain state as well and responded with compassion but also with not continuing the conversation. She never revisited that moment and her non-verbals in future interactions made it clear she did not want me to go there. I continued to offer support if she wanted it regarding this student. I think she ultimately heard me and thought about it. The next year she was more curious about the concept of regulation and asked to borrow some of my books about regulation in the classroom. The student is doing much better, as the stressors have reduced, but also because I have been able to provide some proactive approaches for the teachers each year, encouraging them to see his reactions through a brain state and to have concrete strategies ready, but these teachers and many educators in general still seem to think I am coming from another planet. One time I walked into this student’s classroom in 4th grade and he was being restrained. He does not have an IEP, this is not part of any plan, and I had to regulate myself so I didn’t go into my own stress response of demanding change in the moment. I was able to help the student regulate somewhat while being restrained (no small task) and helped the teacher who was restraining (she is trained but this was not her student) recognize he would be far less of a threat if he was able to use other strategies, and then the principal walked in, made it stop, and he, myself, and the student walked to a different environment to process the situation. But OMG. That kind of response to behavior makes my job feel so much harder.

I feel like I operate in a different paradigm in many ways. And I am judged for being too respectful, kind, and submissive, even though I can often help a student de-escalate and eventually shift to connection and regulation and reasoning in a way others cannot. One of the school counselors is much more on board with my approach. The other one would like every student to pray more. But she lets me do my thing, she’s just not interested in doing the same thing, though I get a sense she has shifted some of her perspective. Schools are so behaviorally based, and I find it challenging to not talk about consequences and rewards, as students are so fixated on these, which makes sense, since these elements are integrated into every moment of every day. So, my focus is not to demolish that approach but to try to integrate understanding of brain state and the power of regulation through connection and felt safety into the approaches teachers are already using. Maybe this is watering it down or not doing it right, but I honestly don’t see the behavioral paradigm shifting in the time I am still working. It is in the systems used to fund things, to hold teachers accountable, to hold parents accountable, and essentially every turn we make is met with a reward or a consequence, whether we recognize it or not. And compassion is often missing. I even have been hissed at by a teacher to get out when I came to help with a dysregulated student, stating he had not earned time with me. I indicated I was not a reward, I was a professional with skills to assist in this kind of situation, and she pointed her finger to the door and told me to leave, which I did. She was clearly also dysregulated and there was no way we were going to get to reasoning in that moment. She is leaving the teaching profession this month to be a police officer. Hmmm…… I try not to judge and remain in my upstairs brain, but it is hard when there is judgment all around and I get worn out.

But then there is also recognition that I am perceived as the calmest person in the building. And I have an enormous amount of stress in my life. Sometimes I am shocked to hear this perception of myself, but it is a widespread perception. And most likely this has to do with my recognition of behavior and humanity through a brain state/stress response lens, including seeing myself through this lens. Perhaps my own presence is the best billboard for a different perspective. And it just happens, but it means I am picking my battles all day long, knowing many humans around me are not ready to shift their perspective and continue to focus intensely on the belief that children are choosing their behaviors, are inherently disrespectful, and need to be trained. And I continue to try to impact this perspective one tiny experience at a time, initially making sure there is a relationship to even begin with. The school has 900 students and 100+ adults. That is a lot of relationships. But that is where it all starts…..

[Janet Lantry]

#1227

I accidentally replied twice. Sorry. I do actually know what I am doing. Perhaps my brain state is the explanation, and my functional IQ is lower currently.

[Judith Norman]

#1238

Hi Janet, sounds like you’re doing a lot of amazing work! I completely agree with your thinking regarding integrating this work into what educators are already doing rather then trying to get them to “stop” what they’re doing. The latter approach doesn’t work, and quite frankly when we do things this way we are doing exactly what we’re hoping educators will not do. Getting worn out makes a lot of sense. We’ll be addressing this. I’m wondering if you’ve had a chance to watch the bonus session. It might be interesting to look at the responses from others from the developmental mindsets paradigm. I look forward to getting to know you better!

[Cheryl Seagren]

#1240

I am a school counselor as well as a registered play therapist. Last year, as students returned full time to the classroom following Covid, students and staff felt overwhelmed, and teaching/learning were very difficult.

The counseling staff at my K-5 school realized that we needed new ways to approach helping those in our care: Kelso’s Choice is informative, but not what was called for at that time. We designed workshops and lessons to help staff, students , and parents become aware of when they felt overwhelmed, understand what was happening in their bodies/brains, and learn ways that they could bring themselves back to the present. We worked throughout the year to embed mindfulness into everyday practices in the classroom as well as teaching about the window of tolerance along with interoception. It was more successful with some teachers and classrooms than with others.

That was the beginning of my own journey to understand stress and brain states in myself and others. I have noticed that my body gives me clues as to when I am feeling stress and dysregulation…it is often my stomach, heart, and breathing that are affected. I struggle to slow down and pay attention, but when I realize what is happening, I try and realize that I need to be kind to myself and practice self-care and self-compassion. This also explains some of my behavior that doesn’t “make sense”!

An awareness of stress reactions and brain states helps when working with staff, students, and parents as well. I try to remember that behavior is a communication tool and there is always a reason for how a child or adult is acting. I may not like what they are doing, but there is a reason for it. I need to remember and respect this as I help the other person get back into their window of tolerance.

Some teachers are really good about understanding that a child who is in the fear/terror mode won’t be able to reason or do math until their “smart brain” in back online. Other teachers just want the student to fall in line and do what they are asked. Teaching understanding of brain states and stress response is a tough sell with these staff members.

Finally, I am interested in including information about brain states and stress responses in FBAs. These are often just behaviorally-based, but I feel that we are missing out on a huge component of how to understand the student and help them be successful.

[cindy weis]

#1243

Janet, wow you have a lot of relationships to manage. I love that you have to remind yourself to stay in a non-judgemental state because I find myself doing that a lot also. It is so hard to watch a student struggle with an adult who can’t see the connection that the student is so desperately wanted but just doesn’t know how to achieve and uses those maladaptive behaviors to seek that connection. You are doing awesome work and just keep making those small roads in a little at a time.

[cindy weis]

#1244

Hi, I am an elementary school counselor with students in Preschool to 5th grade. I started my path in learning about the brain state/stress response only just about 5 years ago and am still amazed that I did not have any classes on any of this in graduate school. I am also amazed that teachers are not having at least a guest speaker come into one of their classes in college to talk about this.

As a school district, we started our journey on trauma-informed practices about 6 months before COVID hit. We were all struggling with behaviors in school and some teachers were better than others at handling the behaviors. We started researching and turned our attention to the research on being trauma-informed. It all made sense at least to me. I started reading and listening to everything I could get my hands on and then when COVID hit and we shut down we found some free online training that everyone could do (Star Commonwealth) and we had ALOT of staff say “WE NEED TO KNOW MORE”. We also had teachers just take the training and skim through it and not take it seriously also. As elementary schools, we implemented Morning Circles every day and we also put Calm Corners/Zen Dens in every class to help students connect and regulate when they came back.

I believe that those of us that look at behaviors through the brain state/stress response lens have more compassion and do not take the behaviors personally. It is still hard though to not go back to thinking that this kid just needs to be disciplined and learn how to behave. I know personally, that it has helped me be calmer and look at how I can help this student more and how to help the teacher see that the connection is needed. I have had to learn new ways to explain this to some teachers because like Janet, some teachers look at me and think that I am just that hippie-counselor that just wants to give every kid a hug. Some teachers just need to vent and say what they think and what they think should be done. Again, that is their stress response and we have to be compassionate with all of our staff because what they are doing is extremely hard and when you add a few students in each classroom having behaviors, they are dysregulated as well.

[Judith Norman]

#1249

Hi Cheryl, Sounds like you and your staff have already done a lot of great learning around these topics! We definitely have to adjust we approach this with different staff and that was probably one of my biggest learnings. I agree with you that using a regualatory lens in FBA’s and “Behavior” plans is vitally important – we will be getting to that and will start using that lens in our next live webinar. I’m curious if you have explored any of Ross Greene’s work?

[Judith Norman]

#1250

Hi Cindy, I’m so with you in regards to not understanding why learning about this isn’t included in teacher and education training. It’s so normal to just want kids “to behave” sometimes, we all go there. We’ll be looking into that reaction more deeply when we talk about ways to set boundaries and what setting boundaries is really all about. I think many of us get put in that category of just wanting to give kids hugs, and quite frankly that is often what I actually do want to do 🙂

[Kelsey Prather]

#1307

Hello! I originally thought this post was due in the “assignments” folder on google drive. So it is late here, although I did “turn it in” on time haha! Here is what I wrote:.

Last week, I visited a teacher in her classroom to ask questions about a point sheet we are developing for a student. When I walked in the classroom, I felt the energy as the students were quietly talking and working on numerous projects. There was another adult in the room, progress monitoring with some students. Right away, after I said hello to the teacher, her response was “There are SO Many things going on right now, I am very overwhelmed, there is just WAY too much expected of me on Friday afternoons.” I saw her begin to tear up and the feeling of overwhelm was clearly greatly impacting her. I immediately offered to watch the classroom for her, as she took a break, but she said “no, no, I can’t”, she started to tear up and walked away from me organizing students to do a different project. Right away, I noticed my body shifting to an overwhelmed, anxious state. I wanted to desperately help this teacher, but I also felt in the way. I wasn’t sure what to do. Eventually the teacher started crying and said “Can I please have a tap out and can you watch my class?” I said of course and she left the class to take a break. When I got back to my office, I had to process what happened with my coworker. I noticed I was disregulated and we both said at the same time “Mirror neurons!!” (she came to your workshop in February :)). I gave myself permission to take a few deep breaths and became curious how my body was feeling. I went too fast for my preference, upon reflection I probably should have gone on a walk outside, drank some hot tea, etc. I pushed through after taking a short moment to *notice*. I am thankful to have that moment with my coworker and to really notice my body and reactions. I believe this helped me be more present an hour later at a parent meeting, for example.

I am also noticing brain states in our students. Week 3, the “honeymoon phase” is over :). There are quite a few students getting a little disregulated and in/out of their window of tolerance; therefore, I see students testing limits with adults and in a hypo or hyper arousal state. I have taken into consideration what brain state a child might be in when they are in “their red brain”, is a common language in the school around Zones of Regulation. A student was in my office and in tears, refusing to go to class. He wanted to go home early like his brother (his brother went home early because of an illness). We did some talk therapy, as well as working on body movement. In retrospect, I would love to try some of the shifting attention activities. It seemed like he was in the “alarm” brain state. I struggled with this because I noticed the more we unpacked emotionally, and the more validation I gave him of his feelings, the longer it took to go back to class. I eventually went to class with him, after working on “I statements” he could tell mom.

[Judith Norman]

#1308

Kelsey, great job recognizing your own dysregulation and how you were impacted by the teacher’s state of arousal. It’s an important step to notice after the fact! It’s not unusual for students to go more deeply into experiences as we explore it with them. If you want, maybe we can explore this experience in consultation.

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